Remove this ad

avatar

Hainix

Posts: 2,058 Member Since:05/10/15

#1061 [url]

Mar 20 16 1:56 PM

Turno wrote:
Lol yeah, a mexicanghrebian !

Agreed. He also passes as Dominican, Cuban, or Puerto Rican.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

Sum1OuTthER

Posts: 226 Member Since:08/06/14

#1062 [url]

May 9 16 2:01 PM

blue wrote:

Sum1OuTthER wrote:


Not counting the introduction of black and Amerindian slaves, I'm thinking that in the past until after the Reconquista, these rates and degrees of exoticness and swartiness were a lot more common in south and central Spain - perhaps on much the same level as Portugal is today. But over the centuries Spain began recieving more and more European admixture, lightening them... especially in central Spain. I believe that North Africans were already present on Iberia long before the Islamic moorish conquest.
 


I think there's some truth in what you're saying, but I'm doubtful that Spain ever received enough people from central and northern Europe after the Reconquista to have made a big difference to the population overall.  Maybe, but I think the lighter people in Spain today are more likely remnants of the Celts and Visigoths, who were pre the Islamic occupation.  This is a small portion of the population though of course.

I agree about the North Africans and remember the original Iberians were very swarthy.  Spain, being considerably hotter and sunnier, would probably have had a darker population than Portugal originally.

Also, lets not exaggerate the difference in light features between Spain and Portugal.  While Portugal has definitely fewer fair people overall, it's not by that much.  By the way one study declared Minho, the province in northern Portugal, as the area of Iberia with the highest quota of true blondes, though I don't know how reliable that is and I personally have my doubts.  The key difference is rather that really exotic (mainly Sub-Saharan African-influenced) features seem to occur with notably greater frequency in the Portuguese.

Well, the Basque country (along with Wales) scores the highest in Europe for Rb1, and according to studies the scores for this in Spain (even Galicia) is overall notably higher than in Portugal - one of the highest levels in Europe - comparable to France, the UK and Ireland. The prevelence of Rb1 in Spain maybe the result of Basque along with Celtic admix. Though on a regional basis, Extremadura and western Andalucia scored quite a bit lower - very comparable to those of southern and northern Portugal. And Extremadurans have turned out to be the clostest Spaniards in the study to southern/centural Portuguese, which comes as no surprise. However, if studies were conducted to take into account the differences between the Leonese country (León, Zamora and Salamanca provinces) and those from northern Castile such as Burgos province, Segovia, etc., would probably yeald similar results. I believe that el País Llionés should be a separate region from Castilla like it originally was, anyways. Easterns Spaniards, Catalans and the Balearics, have shown to be quite distinct - which confirms the west-east distinction in Iberia that is often talked about on this forum. I imagine that southern/centural Galicians could be as close to northern Portuguese as western Extremadurans are to south/centeral Portuguese. Maybe even closer..

"Also, lets not exaggerate the difference in light features between Spain and Portugal.  While Portugal has definitely fewer fair people overall, it's not by that much."

Agreed! After lots more studying of the portuguese galleries posted here and compararing them to those of the Galician, Zamoran, Salamancan and Extremaduran, I generally see very little if any difference in terms of the proportion of swarthies between them... excluding the occasional down right bizarre looking Portuguese showing more obvious amounts of SSA and other slave admix. I also so far have seen no difference at all in wogginess between southern and northern Portugal...maybe I'm wrong though? However, I've seen many more Turinid/East Asian like features amongst Extremadurans than the Portuguese. Which is curious.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Sum1OuTthER

Posts: 226 Member Since:08/06/14

#1063 [url]

May 9 16 2:06 PM

blue wrote:

Turno wrote:

Dazio wrote:
What surprises me, it is not the pigment, but the almost TOTAL ABSENCE of leptorrhine noses (long and thin). I have counted 5 or 6 of them, on the hundreds of people present here

Most portuguese have flat noses(both,from berid and sudanid influence), then you find people with hooked(armenoid like) and straight nose...

In fact it might even be the easiest way to tell a group of Portuguese from a group of Spaniards.  Spanish have a greater amount of "sharp-nosed" people among them.  Portugal probably has more Armenoids than Dinarids.

Amongst Extremadurans I've noted loads of Berid noses as well.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

blue

Posts: 5,948 Member Since:05/09/14

#1065 [url]

May 11 16 8:27 AM

@Sum1

I think R1b spread from the Basques to other parts of Atlantic Europe after the last ice age.  That's really the extent of and the only real truth in an "Atlantic Facade"; that the UK and Ireland were first populated from this refuge in the north of Spain.  That's why you can still find some dark Britons today, particularly in Wales and Ireland, who have retained more of these dark individuals than England.  But of course over the thousands of years those in Northwest Europe have become more depigmented (as well as mixing with Anglo-Saxons), whereas Iberians have retained the brunette pigmentation of the early Paleolithic R1b people.  I don't think it has anything to do with Celts.  Basques still have more R1b than Spaniards because they've kept to themselves and haven't absorbed extraneous influences, like North African dna.  I'm surprised if Galicia has notably more than North Portugal.

There are noticeable, though still quite subtle differences between western and eastern Iberians.  There is more African dna in the west than the centre and east, but I think that it's probably local variation as much as anything.  I remember your thread on Extremadurans showed how even small towns within the same province can vary with regards to the number of swarthy types.  It could be due to resettlement with peoples such as Basques in the lighter places and more North African and/or Sephardic/Phoenician descent in the darker ones.  I think the Turanid types you mention are probably extreme Berids.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Sum1OuTthER

Posts: 226 Member Since:08/06/14

#1066 [url]

May 13 16 12:39 PM

^I see. After the end of the Islamic era, Extremadura had the most settlement by Asturian-Leonese people from farther north who were probably much the same people as northern Portuguese, than at a later time Castlians in the eastern parts and by Portuguese in some of the the border areas during the Renaissance.

Check this out! : http://algharb-alandaluz.blogspot.ca/

Last Edited By: Sum1OuTthER May 13 16 12:51 PM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Tartessian Celt

Posts: 372 Member Since:01/13/16

#1067 [url]

May 14 16 8:06 AM

The galicians and north portuguese, claim to be celts. Other spaniards, claim to be celtiberians. So how do they deal with the r1b fact? Simply as this: they have a "hyphotesis", called the "Late Baskication" which says that we basques came to this lands in V-VI centuries, from France, and that we impossed our language to the celtic indigenous folks. This is very inconsistent, because, how would you believe, that a very small tribes conquered much bigger tribes, imposed their language, BUT retained their blood? Its pure nonsense. 

What do you think about this? 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

blue

Posts: 5,948 Member Since:05/09/14

#1068 [url]

May 16 16 4:14 AM

Tartessian Celt wrote:
The galicians and north portuguese, claim to be celts. Other spaniards, claim to be celtiberians. So how do they deal with the r1b fact? Simply as this: they have a "hyphotesis", called the "Late Baskication" which says that we basques came to this lands in V-VI centuries, from France, and that we impossed our language to the celtic indigenous folks. This is very inconsistent, because, how would you believe, that a very small tribes conquered much bigger tribes, imposed their language, BUT retained their blood? Its pure nonsense. 

What do you think about this? 

Of course it's nonsense.  The Basques are their own people, native to where they still live today.  They are related to, but separate from modern Iberians.  Celts and Celtiberians are more cultural terms than anything else and Galicians and Portuguese are plainly Iberian.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

blue

Posts: 5,948 Member Since:05/09/14

#1069 [url]

May 16 16 4:25 AM

Sum1OuTthER wrote:
^I see. After the end of the Islamic era, Extremadura had the most settlement by Asturian-Leonese people from farther north who were probably much the same people as northern Portuguese, than at a later time Castlians in the eastern parts and by Portuguese in some of the the border areas during the Renaissance.

Check this out! : http://algharb-alandaluz.blogspot.ca/

Wow.  I didn't realise there was anywhere left in Iberia that kept the Moorish customs alive.  

There is a text somewhere on this site that suggests a lot of Moriscos fled north rather than be expelled and eventually returned to their Southern Iberian home towns (mainly rural areas).  Of course there was a lot of resettlement as well with northern folk.  I believe in Andalusia for instance the bigger cities are mostly composed of settlers from elsewhere, but small towns are more ethnically Andalusian.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Conjurer

Posts: 539 Member Since:06/08/16

#1072 [url]

Jun 8 16 2:34 PM

Tartessian Celt wrote:
The galicians and north portuguese, claim to be celts. Other spaniards, claim to be celtiberians. So how do they deal with the r1b fact? Simply as this: they have a "hyphotesis", called the "Late Baskication" which says that we basques came to this lands in V-VI centuries, from France, and that we impossed our language to the celtic indigenous folks. This is very inconsistent, because, how would you believe, that a very small tribes conquered much bigger tribes, imposed their language, BUT retained their blood? Its pure nonsense. 

What do you think about this? 

Northern Portuguese (Or Southern or wtv) don't want to be Celtic. It's only an anthrofora thing and it's very few limited. 

Portuguese people are one very old bunch. And very homogeneous, the only difrences are the Northern Portuguese and maybe azorens being more able to pass outside Southern Europe but the diffrence is not huge and only Portuguese people can see that. 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Turno

Posts: 3,189 Member Since:03/16/15

#1079 [url]

Feb 2 17 2:31 AM

The people in this post: Ana Sanches , Aldonio Ferreira, Alexandra Margarida Vieira Reis, Alípio Mário Guedes Jorge, Amélia Maria Pinto da Cunha BrandãoAna Sanches , Aldonio Ferreira, Alexandra Margarida Vieira Reis, Alípio Mário Guedes Jorge, Amélia Maria Pinto da Cunha Brandão( not in order)
image
image
image
image
image
 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Hainix

Posts: 2,058 Member Since:05/10/15

#1080 [url]

Feb 2 17 8:27 AM

^ Portuguese appear to be fairly similar in pigmentation to Greeks and Spaniards. Maybe slightly darker than both.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help